Why I'm still going out to bat for the EA movement post FTX

By Gemma šŸ”ø @ 2023-09-30T15:02 (+162)

This is a linkpost to https://bashingthearc.substack.com/p/why-im-still-going-out-to-bat-for

From the looks of it, next week might be rough for people who care about Effective Altruism. As CEA acting CEO Ben West pointed out on the forum:

ā€œSam Bankman-Fried's trial is scheduled to start October 3, 2023, and Michael Lewisā€™s book about FTX comes out the same day. My hope and expectation is that neither will be focused on EA ā€¦

Nonetheless, I think thereā€™s a decent chance that viewing the Forum, Twitter, or news media could become stressful for some people, and you may want to pre-emptively create a plan for engaging with that in a healthy way. 

I really appreciated that comment since I didnā€™t know that and Iā€™m glad I had time to mentally prepare. As someone who does outward facing voluntary community building at my workplace and in London, I feel nervous. Iā€™ve written this piece to manage that anxiety. I actually wrote a lot of it last year to process my feelings but now seems like a good time to share.

Thoughts on EA after 2022

During the spring/summer of 2022, I was studying for my final ICAS Chartered Accountancy case study exams. They usually involve:

Youā€™ll be glad to hear that after going through lots of practice papers, I passed!

Then three months later, the news on FTX dropped.

Iā€™m not going to outline it here since I imagine the audience for this are already familiar[1] - if someone has a good summary, please drop it in the comments. It wasnā€™t just FTX, around that time, information was released on Wytham Abbey, Bostrom and the Time sexual harassment scandals.

For context, Iā€™m mostly interested in expanding the reach of effective giving / EA impact methodologies and personally put a high discount rate on the future vs existing suffering, so, I didnā€™t follow the FTX Future Fund that closely.

My primary feelings at the end of 2022 were anger and embarrassment.

Updates Iā€™ve made

I want to be clear that I still feel a lot of anger and embarrassment, but Iā€™ve weighed that up against the positive potential of EA so ā€¦

Why Iā€™m still publicly going out to bat for EA

I know a few people (all women) who have taken a step back from meta-EA this year. That is fair and Iā€™m excited to see what they achieve in doing important direct work. However, Iā€™m not doing that.

Iā€™m still pushing EA at my workplace and, despite a wobble after FTX where we considered naming it EY Altruism Conversations, weā€™ve settled on using EA in the title because most people have never heard of EA yet. Iā€™ve recently added the link to our EA@EY newsletter and my GWWC pledge in my email signature. 

Why?

I think EA is better than anything else that currently exists

The future of EA will be defined by the people who step up and take action today.

Conclusion and some caveats

Saying that, I think EA is the shit. I am really proud to be associated with this movement full of awesome people doing ambitious projects to make the world better. Keep your focus on who youā€™re trying to help and weā€™ll get through it šŸ’Ŗ

Stolen from this post (This is just for vibes; I don't actually think EA is awful.)

  1. ^


    although lol not everyone (posted 23rd September 2023)

  2. ^

    Which tbh I was unconvinced on since it wasn't always meeting a direct cash transfer benchmark

  3. ^


    I recommend this documentary from YouTuber Folding Ideas which is a major source of my distrust of cryptocurrency and Web3


JWS @ 2023-10-01T22:53 (+23)

This was a fantastic post Gemma, it really resonated with me and I honestly think it's one of the best things I've read on here this year :)

Some points that spoke to me, along with reflections from my own experience:

I defer a lot less when making career decisions and thinking about cause prioritisation. Iā€™m still not great at it but Iā€™m much less likely to assume something is true just because someone I respected said it. This is probably a good thing - better late than never

Agreed that this is a good thing. I think that coming to the EA community/movement (as opposed to being aware of the ideas) later in my life I already have career and personal networks that are (mostly) separate from EA, and I think that makes it mentally easier/less socially costly to hold views that aren't the majority, or a slightly different from the Orthodoxy.

I agree with this post that EA is three radical ideas I want to protect (radical empathy, scope sensitivity and scout mindset) but in my opinion the most impressive part of EA is the execution.

Agreed again! My personal experience is that being part of the EA community made me want to 'walk the walk' of my beliefs more, specifically for me it was going vegetarian and signing the GWWC pledge. I think that's something that the EA community does really well.[1]

***

Finally, on the question of "going out to bat for the EA movement post FTX" I think I'm getting more and more into the idea of doing so more loudly, and especially calling out bad criticisms of EA that we let slide too often. Maybe that can be my contribution to the 3rd wave 'do-ocracy' of EA šŸ™‚

  1. ^

    This is kinda related to Scott's Effective Altruism As A Tower Of Assumptions. For example, if you think GW/Randomista charities don't take into account autonomy and personal knowledge then that's fine, donate to GiveDirectly!

Gemma Paterson @ 2023-10-02T05:52 (+5)

Thank you! That's very kind! 

I feel similarly about finding EA later in my life - I heard about it when I was a few years into my career rather than in university. I'm glad I did because if I'd heard about it in uni, I could imagine it becoming my whole deal. I've got a lot of value from working a normie corporate job first and I'm glad a lot of my friends really don't care about EA at all. 

One of my other half-written drafts is about the benefits of doing graduate training at an employer that churns out dozens of graduates a year rather than a small EA organisation (where the quality of management, mentorship, training and support is more variable). I think the 80k advice on career capital for new grads is great and getting people to think about their long term output (thinking 20-30 years head rather than just 5) is excellent, but I think their ideas for initial first jobs are limited (and so obviously written by cerebral oxford grads who would have access to top of the range opportunities). 

IMO they underrate graduates spending their first few years post-grad joining professions where there are existing networks and professional ethics requirements. Examples would be law/accountancy/engineering/medicine/teaching etc. I think there are downsides (time requirement, skills you might not use later) but I think there are benefits to having a more diverse non-academia EA talent pipeline and I want to spread effective giving into those spaces!! Having the pipeline mostly filled with early start up employees, policy people and management consultants is high risk - none of these roles are accountable to external ethical or professional standards. Plus, having worked in international tax, I now have opinions on potentially high impact tax policy work that isn't obvious to people without that background - I like being able to bring a different perspective.

***

Good for you on bad criticisms! Keep at it šŸ’Ŗ

aprilsun @ 2023-09-30T18:19 (+16)

Iā€™m not going to outline it here since I imagine the audience for this are already familiar - if someone has a good summary, please drop it in the comments.

I quite liked this summary from New York Magazine earlier today but YMMV:

Since November 11, 2022, the day that Sam Bankman-Friedā€™s crypto exchange FTX collapsed and his hedge fund Alameda Research collapsed and his personal $26 billion turned out to have been vaporous, the twitchy 31-year-old, maybe-genius, maybe-scammer failed to raise $8 billion to save the company, gave a lot of weird interviews denying he did anything intentionally wrong, tried to blame his ex, was charged with eight counts of fraud and conspiracy, spent a week in a Bahamian jail, had enough of that, got extradited to the U.S., pleaded not guilty in New York, moved in with his parents in California on a $250 million bond, got accused of witness tampering, talked with Michael Lewis, got yelled at by a judge for violating bail terms to watch the Super Bowl, witnessed his former executives flip on him, started a Substack, got hit with four more charges, gave interviews to the rest of the journalists he hadnā€™t already gotten around to, successfully got a charge on illegal campaign contributions dropped on a technicality, got charged with another count of bribing Chinese officials, had a few charges separated to a different criminal suit, leaked his exā€™s diary, got incarcerated again on the grounds that he ā€œattempted to tamper with two witnesses,ā€ complained about not getting his food or medicine while in jail (fair), complained about not having enough computer time in jail (ehhhhh), and got personally sued about three dozen times in the federal courts.

At last, his trial starts on Tuesday, October 3, 2023. It is expected to last about six weeks. He is being judged here on seven charges concerning financial fraud. He faces more than 100 years in jail.

Nathan Young @ 2023-10-13T15:03 (+4)

My primary feelings at the end of 2022 were anger and embarrassment.

I share some of your feelings and disagree with others, but I'll say that I like that you shared them. I don't think we have enough open discussion of how we feel about big events in EA and that leaves people hurt and doesn't create room for future trust. If EA is to change without space for honest discussion of feelings then I think people will get hurt.

Ben_West @ 2023-10-02T23:25 (+4)

Thanks for writing this, I think it's great.

Regarding "The key feedback I have for CEA is that they should do more explicit hero licencing if they donā€™t want to do the organising work themselves." Would you be able to say more about what you think we should be doing differently? In particular: I expect that it's easier for us to hero-license people we are already e.g. giving a grant to than it is for us to search out new people, and if we could do a better job at e.g. telling group leaders "for real we actually think you should own this" that would be good to know.

(Though of course maybe we should additionally put in the effort to search out new people, even though it is harder.)

Gemma Paterson @ 2023-11-12T02:42 (+3)

Apologies for the delay in response - it has been a busy month at work!

Thank you for asking!! I have a lot of suggestions on this so have been trying to legibly structure my thoughts.

However, it has ended up turning into a bit of a monster answer and tbh replying to this comment is blocking me doing effective giving posts.

So I'm going to prioritise writing those this week and get back to you later.

Thanks for understanding!

Ben_West @ 2023-10-02T23:26 (+2)

Minor: your link at the top to my short form about SBF's trial is broken.