Why Undergrads Should Take History Classes

By TW123 @ 2021-11-07T14:25 (+44)

I really liked Mauricio's recent post, Many Undergrads Should Take Light Courseloads. I agree that the majority of the value of college is outside of the classes, and that taking too many classes can detract from other very important things you could be doing.

Still, as a student, you do have to take classes in order to graduate. Most of those classes will be determined by your major and what you intend to do after college. But, at least in the US, some of your classes won't be related to your major. What should you take?

As a computer science major, I have taken some non-CS classes that were far more valuable than the average CS class. Most of them were history classes. In general, I think that history classes can be quite useful, especially for people in EA. In this post, I'll share some lessons I've learned from history.

First, a couple caveats:

With those out of the way, I'll share what I've learned from history classes:

Lots of these things are somewhat obvious. Still, taking the time to process history allows you to actually process them, in a way that I think is very important.

You might wonder what kinds of history classes to take. In the past, I've taken: European Intellectual History since Neitzsche, Eastern European History To 1914, A History of South Africa, and now a class on American history in the 20th century. Here are a few things I value in a history class:

Lastly, I will close by saying that like every professor, history professors have agendas. They have their own view of history and how they want to present it. The best history professors tell stories, and those stories often have morals. Don't always take them for granted.

The next time you sit down to consider classes, and realize you need to satisfy a requirement or you have a blank space in your schedule, remember this post: consider history.


So-Low Growth @ 2021-11-07T21:58 (+25)

I like the post but I'm not entirely convinced. Even if these are optional classes to pad your degree out, you'd have to think taking history classes adds more value than all other potential options. I don't entirely believe that's the case even if I agree with many of your points in the post.

ThomasWoodside @ 2021-11-08T00:41 (+7)

I appreciate this point a lot! I think the counterfactual value of taking history classes is pretty hard to generalize across university students because everyone has different tradeoffs. Some students might have more value from taking other kinds of classes, even other kinds of "padding" classes. Good candidates might be CS, economics, philosophy, math, and maybe a writing class. My general sense is that the value of those classes are more well known in EA (e.g. I see many people majoring in the first four) and probably don't need an explanation. I think history might need more of an explanation, which is why I offered one here. In general, I do agree that people should be thinking about this counterfactually, but I think the outcome would be very dependent on the individual student.

D0TheMath @ 2021-11-07T17:20 (+12)

I'm skeptical of your claim that primary sources are better than secondary books. In particular, it seems that the insight-to-effort ratio is very small, as given a secondary book which comes recommended by people knowledgeable in the field, it seems you can get approximately the same insights as a primary source, but with far far less effort.

Can you expand on why you think either the fidelity of the insight transfer from the primary to secondary source is small, or why I'm overestimating the difficulty of reading primary sources (or some other reason you think I should care more about primary sources which I haven't thought of)?

ThomasWoodside @ 2021-11-07T17:27 (+7)

I definitely don't mean to say that classes shouldn't have secondary sources; they should and these sources are important (I am less excited about tertiary sources). I think a key to primary sources is something like the ability to read current sources as primary sources. If you develop the skills to be able to understand primary sources in the context of history, it helps enable you to be able to evaluate primary sources of today. I see history as a good way to learn how to evaluate the world at present, and the world at present has more primary than secondary sources about it.

Nathan Young @ 2021-11-09T13:45 (+10)

I think this post makes a better case that we should be interested in history than that we should attend history classes. 

I agree that we could do well to learn from and meditate on the highs and lows of history and that I my opinions are parochial and shortsighted.

Thanks for writing.

kokotajlod @ 2021-11-08T00:37 (+10)

I just want to second this recommendation. In my experience a lot of people are ignorant of various important facts about the world, including my past self, and don't realize it because they don't know what they are missing. Presumably my present self is also ignorant of important things that more history learning could fix.

Harrison D @ 2021-11-07T16:55 (+9)

Personally, I have tended to enjoy the history classes I took, but I also felt that actual history “classes” are not the most efficient way to learn broader lessons/concepts. For example, I took a Russian revolutionary (~1860–1921) history class, which I personally found interesting (especially since I was also studying Russian language). I feel like I learned quite a few interesting stories, and even learned some broader concepts about failure modes for democratic governance (e.g., division among more-moderate parties vs. cohesion among some of the more-militant parties), political power structures, foreign manipulation of domestic politics, etc. However, the class also required learning/memorizing a serious amount of dates, names, places, etc. for tests, despite not actually being pivotal to learning the broader concepts.

I certainly haven’t thought all that long about it, but I do feel like history could be taught much more efficiently for people like me who want to learn important lessons from history to update their models and/or get a sense of what might happen moving forward. For example, integrating short-ish (e.g., 3 week) history modules that don’t focus so much on the specific details into political science classes on specific themes like “political revolutions” or “social conceptions of morality”? Of course, if you like learning all the details and/or telling the stories in conversations, then the traditional format seems like a good route.

ThomasWoodside @ 2021-11-07T17:28 (+5)

Classes are often not the most efficient way to learn things. History is certainly no different, and I think the idea of history modules sounds very interesting. That being said, I wrote this post mainly for undergrads who have to operate within the boundaries of classes to some extent.

Bobby Feng @ 2021-11-08T06:42 (+1)

I would like to  address on the point "the ends don't often pan out".  It appears that the issues you have discussed are involved with failures of instrumental reasons and epistemic failures as opposed to problems with consequentialism as a moral system.  I believe learning from these failures don't necessarily  involve in history but can be also achieved from alternative sources. For example, a mechanical engineer would learn about Challenger disaster. Similarly, a nuclear engineer would learn from Fukushima disaster.