Speedrunning on-demand bliss for improved productivity, wellbeing, and thinking

By kuhanj @ 2025-05-07T04:01 (+38)

TLDR: Significant, lasting benefits from meditation can be experienced quite quickly (within a few hours speaking from personal experience). I'd strongly consider giving jhana meditation and Jhourney retreats a shot. My online Jhourney retreat was easily the best week of my lifeand many others have had similarly positive experiences. Many (EA) friends have also sustainably increased their wellbeing and productivity after doing a Jhourney retreat. 

Disclaimer: I wanted to get this post out quickly since a work-compatible, remote meditation retreat I’d strongly recommend is starting soon (Thursday May 15th), and likely won’t be run again online for four months. Many of the benefits and insights I discuss are based on personal experience, and not backed up in the post with statistics/science (though I presume this is possible in ~all cases). I plan to write a more well-researched piece in the future. 

Summary

The jhanas are a set of non-addictive states of extraordinary bliss and peace, typically accessed through meditation (though upregulated breathwork like this may yield quicker results initially). There’s an upcoming work-compatible Jhourney retreat (which takes a data-driven, secular approach to jhana meditation) starting next week (May 15). 

I was told that Jhourney plans to host more in-person retreats over the summer, but won’t have more remote full-time and work-compatible retreats until after the summer. Here’s the registration link. DM me if you’d like a discount code. I have no financial incentives to get people to sign up and have no affiliation with Jhourney. They didn’t ask or pay me to write this. 

I’d also encourage readers to explore (jhana) meditation on their own (I recommend this Rob Burbea retreat) and related topics (e.g. secular Buddhism, understanding the brain and nervous system, how emotions influence our cognition and decision-making, predictive processing, etc). I share more content recommendations below.

Jhourney’s (data-driven, secular) approach to jhana meditation reliably produces transformative experiences.

Large, sustained positive changes can happen quite quickly. 

People often report significant, lasting benefits to jhana meditation. 

Downsides: 

Heightened sensitivity to emotions and physical sensations can initially feel overwhelming. In my experience, with practices like core transformation/internal family systems processing and other therapy, gratitude journaling, practicing loving kindness + compassion, and positive behavior change, the heightened sensitivity quickly (within 2 weeks) became very clearly net-positive. 

Recommendations:

Benefits of jhana meditation that have lasted over a month post-retreat:

Additional Content Recommendations

Hypotheses for why I had an outlier positive  retreat:

Hopefully some of these can help others get more out of jhana meditation

I’m happy to share my personal retreat reflection with more details and the modified meditation instructions I use if you’re interested (feel free to DM). And feel free to share your experience with meditation and related topics in the comments. :)


Alfredo Parra 🔸 @ 2025-05-07T12:59 (+11)

In case it helps, I enhanced the audio of Rob Burbea's jhana retreat, which you can find here. :)

Yarrow🔸 @ 2025-05-07T16:05 (+7)

$1,295 is quite a steep price. Even with the $200 referral code discount, $1,095 is still a steep price.

What is the interactive or personalized aspect of the online "retreats"? Why couldn’t they be delivered as video on-demand (like a YouTube playlist), audio on-demand (like a podcast), or an app like Headspace or 10% Happier?

From some poking around, I found that Jhourney has been doing retreats for at least 2 years, and possibly longer. It’s hard to believe that the following could be true:

-That around 40% of participants have a transformative experience (about 66% of participants say they experienced a jhana and about 60% of that 66% say it was the best thing to happen to them in at least the past six months).

-That the people who have a transformative experience also have some sort of lasting, sustainable improvement to their lives long-term.

-That Jhourney’s way of teaching meditation is so much different from and better than other ways of teaching meditation that have been broadly accessible for years — such as apps like Headspace or any number of meditation teachers or retreats that exist seemingly in (or near) every major city in North America — that it produces transformative experiences and sustained life improvement at a much higher rate.

This might be more believable if Jhourney had just developed this program and tried it out for the first time. But, as I said, they have been doing retreats for at least 2 years. It seems dubious the results could be this good without making more of a splash.

It also stokes the fires of my skepticism that this allegedly transformative knowledge is kept behind a $1,295 paywall. If Jhourney’s house blend of jhana meditation makes you more altruistic, why wouldn’t the people who work at Jhourney try to share it widely with the world? That’s what I would do if I had developed a meditation program that I thought was really producing these sorts of results.

Maybe I would still need to charge something for it rather than make it completely free. A 1-year Headspace subscription costs $70. Maybe something in that ballpark.

Jhourney reminds me of Transcendental Meditation (TM), which charges $1,400 for meditation instruction that — from what I hear — is not very differentiated from what you can get for free or cheap. TM also makes extreme claims about the kinds of results it produces for people.

My impression of TM is that it’s basically a scam. They are secretive, charge an inordinate amount of money, don’t seem to produce better results than what you can get from Headspace or your typical local meditation teacher, and make claims about the benefits of the practice that far exceed the actual benefits.

I’m inclined to believe that Jhourney is similar. People do have transformative experiences — with meditation, with spiritual retreats, with pilgrimages like the Camino de Santiago (or secular walks like the Pacific Coast Trail), with religion, with psychedelics, with therapy, with all sorts of things — but that’s different from what Jhourney seems to be claiming. Again, what I’m specifically skeptical of is:

-That a high percentage of people (e.g. 40%) will have a transformative experience.

-That this transformative experience or impression of having a transformative experience will lead to positive long-term life changes.

-That the percentage of people who experience something transformative, the magnitude of the transformative experience, or the long-term effects marks a radical departure from the experiences people have been having for decades in North America with meditation, psychedelics, and therapy.

In addition to meditation and the other normal things, I have tried all kinds of weird things like nootropics, hypnosis/hypnotherapy, and binaural beats. I am open to trying weird things. Another way to put it is that I’m sort of an "easy mark" for self-help fads.

So, when I read this post I was tempted to believe that Jhourney had invented a non-pharmacological version of the Limitless pill. But, for the reasons I just gave, Jhourney’s narrative doesn’t add up for me.

When they release the $70 app, maybe I’ll try it then.

kuhanj @ 2025-05-07T17:44 (+6)

Fair and understandable criticisms. Some quick responses: 

1) I've attempted to share resources and pointers that I hope can get people similar benefits for free without signing up for a retreat (like Rob Burbea's retreat videos and other content). Since I found most of these after my Jhourney retreat I can't speak from experience about their effectiveness. I'd be excited for more people to experiment and share what does and doesn't work for them, and for people with more experience to share what has and hasn't worked in the past (on the meditation front, emotion processing and more). I also don't intend to suggest that Jhourney has access to insights that are only discoverable by doing one of their retreats. They do seem to be taking the prospect that jhanas can be accessed quickly much more seriously than many others, and have encouraging results. 

2) As I mentioned, my experience appears to have been somewhat of an outlier, and I don't have a great understanding as to why. Insofar as whatever worked for me can help others, I aim to share. That said, Twitter discourse about jhanas and Jhourney seems to match my impression, other unaffiliated people have discussed Jhourney retreats seeming to generate many outlier positive experiences.

3) It doesn't surprise me at all that there's low-hanging fruit on the mindfulness front. Buddhist texts are very poorly (anti-helpfully) translated. There has not been that much serious exploration, optimization pressure, and investment into improving and democratizing mindfulness education. This extends beyond mindfulness. Why did it take as long as it did for GLP-1 medications to become widespread? Many self-help interventions are incentivized against actually fixing people's problems (e.g. therapists stop getting paid if they permanently fix your problems). There are other orgs that seem to generate very positive experiences working in related areas, like Art of Accomplishment content and courses for processing emotions, making better decisions, and better connecting with others. 

4) I don't know Jhourney's team well and don't want to speak on their behalf.  I've found their official and staff Twitter accounts share the most relevant instructions they provide on retreat - e.g. they publicly discuss cultivating positivity likely being more effective for accessing jhanas, forgiveness meditation (which I'm realizing I should add to the main post) and guided recordings, and many other insights.

My impression is that expected donations/fees for week-long meditation retreats is often in the $1000+ range (though granted this is for in-person retreats, and I haven't explored this in detail). We did have daily personalized instruction, and staff were available on-call throughout our retreat.  Given how quickly Jhourney's retreats sell out, from a profit-maximizing perspective it seems like they could be charging more. I also don't know what they do with their profits. I wouldn't be surprised if they donated a decent amount, or spent it in ways they think make sense on altruistic grounds. They say in their blog post about their plans that they aspire to change the lives of tens of millions with the following steps:

  1. Build a school to demonstrate that it's possible to transform wellbeing with meditation
  2. Invest the money and attention from the school into technology to accelerate that process
  3. Deliver superwellbeing more quickly and reliably
Will Aldred @ 2025-05-07T17:20 (+3)

What is the interactive or personalized aspect of the online “retreats”? Why couldn’t they be delivered as video on-demand (like a YouTube playlist), audio on-demand (like a podcast), or an app like Headspace or 10% Happier?

I mean, Jhourney is far from the only organisation that offers online retreats. Established meditation centres like Gaia HousePlum Village and DeconstructingYourself—to name but a few—all offer retreats online (as well as in person).

If Jhourney’s house blend of jhana meditation makes you more altruistic, why wouldn’t the people who work at Jhourney try to share it widely with the world? That’s what I would do if I had developed a meditation program that I thought was really producing these sorts of results.

I think Jhourney’s website answers this. They say:

Jhourney’s initial product is a meditation retreat. In the past ~12 months, we’ve created a modern school for learning how to have joyful meditative experiences. We teach in a week what was previously thought to require hundreds or thousands of hours of practice. […]

While this is great progress, we see meditation retreats as just a stepping stone to building a bigger movement. We’re not simply a retreats company aspiring to teach thousands of people meditation. We’re an applied research company aspiring to change the lives of tens of millions.

[…]

From here, we’ll build a lab to research ways to make it easier and faster, inspiring more people to join the cause. Eventually, we’ll develop novel deeptech for wellbeing that goes beyond meditation retreats.

I personally wouldn’t bet on the neurotech approach working; however, I’m inclined to believe that Jhourney is making a sincere effort to share their findings with the world.

It also stokes the fires of my skepticism that this allegedly transformative knowledge is kept behind a $1,295 paywall.

I agree that it’s reasonable to be skeptical of paywalled content—there are all kinds of scams out there. But in Jhourney’s case, I expect they are putting their operating income towards their research lab. Note also that they offer need-based scholarships.

COI note: I attended an online Jhourney retreat last year.

Yarrow🔸 @ 2025-05-07T17:51 (+2)

Do those other meditation centres make similarly extreme claims about the benefits of their programs? If so, I would be skeptical of them for the same reasons. If not, then the comparison is inapt. 

If I had developed a meditation program that I really thought did what Jhourney is claiming their meditation program does, I would not be approaching it this way. I would try to make the knowledge as widely accessible as I could as quickly as possible. Jhourney has been doing retreats for over two years. What's the hold up?

Transcendental Meditation (TM)'s stated justification for their secrecy and high prices is that TM requires careful, in-person, one-on-one instruction. What's Jhourney's justification for not making instructional videos or audio recordings that anyone can buy for, say, $70?

Could it be just commercial self-interest? But, in that case, why hasn't the jhana meditation encouraged them to prize altruism more? Isn't that supposed to be one of the effects?

I'm willing to make some allowance for personal self-interest and for the self-interest of the business, of course. But selling $70 instructional materials to millions of people would be a good business. And the Nobel Peace Prize comes with both a $1 million cash prize and a lot of fame and acclaim. Similarly, the Templeton Prize comes with $1.4 million in cash and some prestige. There are other ways to capitalize on fame and esteem, such as through speaking engagements. So, sharing a radical breakthrough in jhana meditation with the world has strong business incentives and strong personal self-interest incentives. Why not do it?

The simplest explanation is that they don't actually have the "product" they're claiming to have. Or, to put it another way, the "product" they have is not as differentiated from other meditation programs as they're claiming and does not reliably produce the benefits they're claiming it reliably produces.

Will Aldred @ 2025-05-07T18:53 (+4)

Do those other meditation centres make similarly extreme claims about the benefits of their programs? If so, I would be skeptical of them for the same reasons. If not, then the comparison is inapt.

Why would the comparison be inapt?

A load-bearing piece of your argument (insofar as I’ve understood it) is that most of the benefit of Jhourney’s teachings—if Jhourney is legit—can be conferred through non-interactive means (e.g., YouTube uploads). I am pointing out that your claim goes against conventional wisdom in this space: these other meditation centres believe (presumably), much like Jhourney does, that their teachings can’t be conferred well non-interactively. I’m not sure why the strength of claimed benefits would come into it?

(I will probably drop out of this thread now; I feel a bit weird about taking on this role of defending Jhourney’s position.)

Yarrow🔸 @ 2025-05-07T16:40 (+4)

On the topic of shame and guilt, I really want to recommend what the emotions researcher Brené Brown says about the topic. The best, quickest way to understand what she has to say about shame and guilt is to watch her two TED Talks in release order. 

The first talk, on vulnerability, only lightly touches on shame, but it provides context for the second talk, without which the second talk will make less sense.

The second talk, on shame, explicitly gets into shame and guilt, the differences between them, and the difference between their effects on behaviour.

Here's the core distinction, which she gives in the second talk:

The thing to understand about shame is, it's not guilt. Shame is a focus on self, guilt is a focus on behavior. Shame is "I am bad." Guilt is "I did something bad." ... There's a huge difference between shame and guilt. 

And here's what you need to know. Shame is highly, highly correlated with addiction, depression, violence, aggression, bullying, suicide, eating disorders.

And here's what you even need to know more. Guilt, inversely correlated with those things. The ability to hold something we've done or failed to do up against who we want to be is incredibly adaptive. It's uncomfortable, but it's adaptive.

I think there's probably such a thing as maladaptive guilt too. I vaguely remember Brené Brown briefly talking about this somewhere. If you feel guilt about something that's not your fault and you can't control, or if your guilt is way out of proportion to what you did wrong, then maybe those could be cases where guilt is maladaptive. 

But most of the time people are saying "guilt" when what they're talking about it shame — a focus on self. So, most of the problems people have with "guilt" can actually be attributed to shame. 

Further resources beyond the TED Talks:

-Brené Brown's book I Thought It Was Just Me (but it isn't), about shame and shame resilience

-Brené Brown's audio program The Power of Vulnerability (you can find it on Audible), in which shame and shame resilience are a major topic 

-A more textbook-style book that Brené Brown recommends (and which I've only read a bit of but which seems good), Shame and Guilt by June Price Tangney and Ronda L. Dearing, if you are interested in a more quantitative or more academic dive into the research

Kat Woods @ 2025-05-08T14:24 (+2)

You speak of the difference between jhana and breath practice. Is it mainly just the object of concentration (i.e. the breath vs creating a whole body positive feeling)? Or is it more than that? 

kuhanj @ 2025-05-09T01:00 (+2)

I intended to distinguish upregulated breathing/controlled hyperventilation like the linked video from (any kind of) meditation with the intention of getting into jhanas. 

Kat Woods @ 2025-05-10T17:48 (+2)

OK, thanks!

Kat Woods @ 2025-05-08T14:18 (+2)

Thanks for writing this up! 

Few questions:

kuhanj @ 2025-05-09T01:14 (+4)

How long does the happiness continue when you're not meditating? A range of times would be helpful

Initially the afterglow would last 30 minutes to a few hours. Over time it's gotten closer to a default state unless various stressors (usually work-related) build up and I don't spend enough time processing them. I've been trading off higher mindfulness to get more work done and am not sure if I'm making the right trade-offs, but I expect it'll become clearer over time as I get more data on how my productivity varies with my mindfulness level. 

How long does it take you to get into the state each time?

When my mindfulness levels are high it can be almost instantaneous and persist outside of meditation. When it's not, I can still usually get to a fairly strong jhana within 30 minutes. 

How many hours of meditation did you have to do before you could reliably achieve the state?

In my case maybe 5-8 hours of meditation on retreat before the earlier jhanas felt easy to straightforwardly access? I did get lucky experiencing a jhana quite early on during my retreat. I also found cold showers and listening to my favorite music pre-meditation made getting into a jhana much faster.

  • What percentage of the time when you try to get into the state do you succeed? 

ATM I think 90-95%? 

 

Kat Woods @ 2025-05-10T17:50 (+2)

Amazing! Thank you! 

CB🔸 @ 2025-05-07T06:56 (+2)

Very useful, I will check it!

I also was on a plateau with breath-work meditation (although it did bring good benefits). And different people resonate differently to different meditation techniques, so it's worth trying a lot of them. This one sounds very promising.

I won't be able to attend this one, but I could do the one after the summer. Do they have a "stay notified for future session" link?

kuhanj @ 2025-05-07T11:14 (+2)

Thanks! You can fill out this form to get notified about future retreats. Their in-person retreats might well be worth doing as well if you're able to, and generate similar results according to their survey. They're more expensive and require taking more time off work. But given their track record I wouldn't be surprised if it was worth the money and time. I have a friend who has done an in-person and online retreat with them and preferred the in-person one. 

That said, I have a hard time imagining my experience being as positive doing the retreat in person, largely because I got a lot of value out of feeling comfortable expressing my emotions however felt natural (and crying in particular). I would not have felt comfortable potentially disrupting others while meditating in the same room. 

And strong +1 to trying things. I wish I had read Romeo Steven's meditation FAQ (and the rest of his blog) years ago, and this excerpt in particular. 

There needs to be some sort of guiding principle on when to keep going and when to try something different. The answer, from surveys and measurements taken during longer term practice intensives, seems to be about 30 hours of practice. If a practice hasn't shown some sort of tangible, legible benefit in your thinking process, emotional stability, or skillful behavior in the world it very very likely isn't the practice for you right now. This doesn't mean it is a bad practice or that others might not derive great benefit from it. This also doesn't mean it might not be useful to you in the future. But it isn't the practice for you right now. Granted, there are exceptions to every rule, and some people get something out of gritting their teeth and sticking with a practice for a long time. But I strongly suspect they could have had an easier time trying other things. 30 hours might sound like a long time, but its just a month of practice at one hour per day. This caps how much of a time waste any given technique is. In the beginning it is very likely that you can get away with less: two weeks of practice time should show some results. If you try lots of things for two weeks each and nothing works you may need to resort to the longer standard of 30 hours.

Jhourney recommends approaching meditation like a scientist outside of sessions (e.g. considering experiments and variables to isolate), but with child-like playfulness while meditating. I've found that approach quite helpful. It led to an impromptu experiment to listen to music to amplify positive emotions while meditating, which IIRC preceded my first jhana of the retreat.