Are Organically Farmed Animals Already Living a Net-Positive Life?

By Christoph Hartmann 🔸 @ 2024-10-16T21:08 (+21)

This article aims to stimulate discussion and does not necessarily represent a definitive stance.

In discussions surrounding animal welfare I feel there is an implicit assumption that the lives of farmed animals are always net-negative—that is, the suffering they endure outweighs any positive experiences. This assumption often underpins arguments for reducing or eliminating animal product consumption. However, could it be that some farmed animals, particularly those raised under organic standards, are already experiencing net-positive lives?

The question is not merely theoretical; it has practical implications for ethical consumer choices and EA strategies. If organically farmed animals have lives worth living, this might reshape how we approach animal welfare and advocacy.

The bar to cross: Wild Animal Lives?

Wild animals often face harsh conditions: predation, disease, starvation, and environmental stresses are commonplace. Yet they also have a lot of positive periods in their lifes which could balance out net-positive as argued in a recent 80k podcast with Peter Godfrey-Smith. In contrast, organically farmed animals benefit from human care, regular feeding, protection from predators, and were to some extend selected to tolerate living in captivity. If the quality of life for of organically raised animals surpasses that of wild animals, there's a compelling argument that their lives could be net-positive.

But what does an organic label guarantee, and how does it improve animal welfare compared to conventional farming? Let's delve into a high-level contrasting of farmed animals and examine how organic practices address welfare issues. I am taking 80.000 hours recent updated article on the treatment of farmed animals as a starting point. As a comparison let's take the Naturland standard (overview, detail) - a German certification that goes beyond the EU organic certification.

1. Chickens Farmed for Eggs

Conventional Practices:

Organic Practices of the Naturland Certification:

2. Chickens Farmed for Meat

Conventional Practices:

Organic Practices of the Naturland Certification:

3. Pigs Farmed for Meat

Conventional Practices:

Organic Practices of the Naturland Certification:

4. Dairy Cows

Conventional Practices:

Organic Practices of the Naturland Certification:

5. Cattle Farmed for Meat

Conventional Practices:

Organic Practices Under the Naturland Certification:

Should We Promote an Organic Diet?

Given the comparisons above it seems to me there is a good chance that animals raised under the Naturland certification live a net-positive life. However, within animal advocacy circles, being vegan seems to be the morally best thing to do. 

If we assume that organically farmed animals have net-positive lives, one could argue that eating animal products is actually the morally right thing to do. Taken to the extreme, one could even argue that from a population ethics perspective, there is a moral obligation to eat more animal products to support more net-positive lives. From an advocacy perspective it might also be much easier to advocate for a lifestyle change to an organic diet than to a fully vegan one. I don't have the answer, curious about your thoughts!

Some Open Questions


alene @ 2024-10-17T13:11 (+4)

This is an interesting and important post. 

I don't know the answer to the question you pose about whether, on average, animals used for organic food production have net positive lives. I'm thinking there's probably a lot of variation based on animal species, what product the animal is being used for, and how well-run the organic operation is. All that makes it harder for me to try to compute an average in my brain. 

But I have a question and a thought.

The question: I'm wondering why you chose to explore organic in this post, as opposed to other food labels that are more exclusively focused on animal welfare. Organic seems to me like it introduces some distracting elements. Because my understanding is that a lot of the organic requirements are aimed at protecting consumer health, the environment, and naturalness. But there are other food labels that are more exclusively aimed at protecting animal welfare, like the various tiers of Global Animal Partnership labels. That said, I'm imagining you may have a specific reason in mind for focusing on organic.

The thought: Legal Impact for Chickens is suing Alexandre Family Farm, which advertises its products as certified organic, for starving cattle; pouring salt into animals’ eyes; dragging disabled cows across concrete; leaving calves to die while isolated in small, filthy, individual hutches; and more. I would not want to be one of those cows. That said, others in the organic farming community, like the Northeast Organic Dairy Producers Alliance and the Regenerative Organic Alliance, have come out to condemn Alexandre. And some of Alexandre's cruel practices explicitly violate organic rules. So it's possible that most animals used for organic agriculture do have net positive lives.

I'm curious to hear other peoples' thoughts. 

Christoph Hartmann 🔸 @ 2024-10-18T11:44 (+1)

Thanks for your thoughts!

On your question: I chose organic because I had initially planned to take the EU Organic one because it’s so wide spread here and has some animal welfare standards. In the end I chose Naturland though because it seems to be stronger on animal welfare, and I wanted to make a strong case.

I am not aware of any reported malpractices as the one you cited for that label but of course there is always a chance to have these outliers.

CB🔸 @ 2024-10-19T16:13 (+1)

This is an interesting question, and I'd really like to know the answer.

From what I got, chicken have a lot of trouble making hiérarchies when there are a lot of them (e.g. thousands) and it's something important for them so this might be a negative element. But frankly not sure.

Christoph Hartmann 🔸 @ 2024-10-21T09:15 (+2)

Yes I heard the same. I had a brief look at their regulation and saw that "No more than 3,000 laying hens may be kept in any one shed" which seems pretty high even if they have more space per hen than with other regulations.

I'll see if I can talk to some experts and get their thoughts on these questions.

SummaryBot @ 2024-10-17T17:56 (+1)

Executive summary: Organically farmed animals may already be living net-positive lives compared to wild animals, which could have significant implications for animal welfare advocacy and ethical consumer choices.

Key points:

  1. Organic farming practices (e.g. Naturland certification) significantly improve animal welfare compared to conventional farming.
  2. Improvements include free-range access, lower stocking densities, prohibition of mutilations, and better living conditions.
  3. If organic farm animals have net-positive lives, it may be ethically justifiable or even obligatory to consume organic animal products.
  4. Promoting organic diets could be an easier advocacy approach than promoting veganism.
  5. Open questions remain about rigorously assessing animal quality of life and the global implications of promoting organic farming.
  6. Uncertainty exists about whether promoting organic diets would increase or decrease consumption of conventional animal products.

 

 

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