Entertainment for EAs
By Toby Tremlettđš @ 2025-10-17T11:15 (+56)
Iâve used the phrase âentertainment for EAsâ a bunch to describe a failure mode that Iâm trying to avoid with my career. Maybe itâd be useful for other people working in meta-EA, so Iâm sharing it here as a quick draft amnesty post.
Thereâs a motivational issue in meta-work where itâs easy to start treating the existing EA community as stakeholders. The real stakeholders in my work (and meta-work in general) are the ultimate beneficiaries â the minds (animal, human, digital?) that could benefit from work I help to initiate. But those beneficiaries arenât present to me â they arenât my friends, they donât work in the same building as me. To keep your eyes on the real prize takes constant effort.
When your attention slips, you could end up working on âentertainment for EAsâ, i.e. something which gets great feedback from EAs, but only hazily, if at all, affects the ultimate beneficiaries. Obviously this is something for me to watch out for in my work â I want my work on the Forum to lead to impact, but Iâm also likely to hear enthusiastic feedback if I host an event that is really fun, even if it doesnât ultimately lead to anything else.
This doesnât just affect my work though. My âentertainment for EAsâ detector goes off whenever:
a) I hear a theory of change that routes through the EA community, i.e. helping EAs with productivity, mental health, etcâŚ
b) I hear about a content project (blog, podcast) which sounds like itâll mostly appeal to EAs.
Iâm not saying that these projects wonât turn out to be valuable â for example I felt this scepticism towards Asterisk when it began, and now Iâm very glad they exist, and working on improving the mental health/ productivity of existing workers can sometimes be more cost-effective than finding and hiring new workers â but I think we should approach them with initial scepticism. This is a classic case of a surprising and suspicious convergence, e.g. the thing we should fund just happens to also be something weâd benefit from directly â that merits a âhmmmâ.
Draft amnesty post, and I only had 10 minutes to write this, so I wonât add anything else, but I thought it may be valuable to share, even in its current form.
Also, if you see me doing something on the Forum that looks plausibly like entertainment for EAs, message me/ comment! Iâd appreciate being held to account on this.
NickLaing @ 2025-10-17T14:04 (+10)
As much as I mostly agree with this, I selfishly want to soak up a little of your love and "entertainment" from time to time. I'm keen to keep the forum vibrant and nurturing to our souls, it's going to be hard to avoid fun from time to time.
So when the gratuitous, meaningless fun hits the forum, I might not be reporting to @Toby Tremlettđš and the fun police.... ;)
Toby Tremlettđš @ 2025-10-17T14:08 (+2)
Haha yes this is true - and at the risk of ruining the fun (in the same way a joke is ruined when you explain it), things which help the community have fun together can be justified in terms of retention/ motivation. So entertainment per se isn't bad, it's just a reason for some extra scepticism.
Damin Curtisđš @ 2025-10-17T14:51 (+3)
As a developer of fellowships and courses in EA, this is something I constantly consider as a failure mode-- building something that's interesting, and delights impressive participants, but doesn't have a strong ToC that actually makes the world lower suffering in expectation. Thanks for making this post, it's a really important consideration that might be given too little credence much of the time!
Toby Tremlettđš @ 2025-10-17T14:55 (+2)
Thanks Damin!